Q & A

Crossed Sabers Stable

The Mountain State Horse School and Second Wind Adoption Program, Inc.

Crossed Sabers International Life School, Inc.

Mailing/Physical Address: Rt 2 Box 24A Jockey Camp Road, West Union, WV 26456

Office Phone: 304-873-3532

Fax: 304-873-1867 (call before faxing)

Email for Second Wind Adoption Program: SecondWindAdopt@aol.com

Visiting Hours: Daily 10am to 2pm (eastern time) by appointment

Pick Up and Delivery of Horses: 9am to 8pm by appointment

Office Hours: Monday - Thursday 9am to 4pm

I shall wear diamonds and a wide brimmed straw hat with ribbons and flowers on it

And I shall spend my social security on white wine and carrots

And sit in the alley of my barn and listen to my horses breathe.

I will sneak out in the middle of a summer's night And ride the dappled mare across the moonstruck meadow, if my old bones will allow. and when people come to call, I will smile and nod, As I walk them past the gardens to the barn And show, instead, the flowers growing there

In stalls fresh-lined with straw. I will shovel and sweat and wear hay in my hair as if it were a jewel. And I will be an embarrassment of all who look down on me Who have not yet found the peace in being free To love a horse as a friend, a friend who waits at midnight hour

With muzzle and nicker and patient eyes For the Woman I will be when I am old.

A young boy was walking along the beach

as high tide came in.

With every crash of the waves

he noticed that dozens of seahorses were being cast onto the beach,

where they lay gasping and squirming.

Hurriedly, he ran to each seahorse he could find

and gently tossed them back into the surf.

A man watching all this approached the boy and said;

"Son, what you are doing won't make a difference",

to which the boy replied,

A 92-year-old, petite, well-poised and proud man, who is fully dressed each morning by eight o'clock, with his hair fashionably combed and shaved perfectly, even though he is legally blind, moved to a nursing home today. His wife of 70 years recently passed away, making the move necessary. After many hours of waiting patiently in the lobby of the nursing home, he smiled sweetly when told his room was ready.

As he maneuvered his walker to the elevator, I provided a visual description of his tiny room, including the eyelet sheets that had been hung on his window.

'I love it,' he stated with the enthusiasm of an eight-year-old having just been presented with a new puppy.

'Mr. Jones, you haven't seen the room; just wait.'

'That doesn't have anything to do with it,' he replied.

'Happiness is something you decide on ahead of time. Whether I like my room or not doesn't depend on how the furniture is arranged .. it's how I arrange my mind. I already decided to love it. 'It's a decision I make every morning when I wake up. I have a choice; I can spend the day in bed recounting the difficulty I have with the parts of my body that no longer work, or get out of bed and be thankful for the ones that do.

Each day is a gift, and as long as my eyes open, I'll focus on the new day and all the happy memories I've stored away. Just for this time in my life.

Old age is like a bank account. You withdraw from what you've put in.

So, my advice to you would be to deposit a lot of happiness in the bank account of memories!

Thank you for your part in filling my Memory bank.

I am still depositing.' Remember the five simple rules to be happy:

1. Free your heart from hatred.

2. Free your mind from worries.

5. Expect less.

Our lives with horses...

Our lives with horses are rich with feeling. You know this if you've ever.... choked back tears watching a new foal wobble to his feet for the First time ...or watched your good horse wobble to his feet after surgery.... or seen the ends of the reins float straight out as a reining horse spins beneath them . . or chuckled to yourself as you watched a tiny tot on a patient pony trot through a barrel pattern at a saddle club payday ... or felt the building tremble as an eight-up hitch of feather-legged giants towed a hand-carved beer wagon into the arena ... or had your heart stop when you saw your horse lying motionless in the pasture on a sunny day and waited breathlessly for an ear to flick ... or cheered at the screen when 'The Man From Snowy River' slid Dennie down the mountainside, .. or when Seabiscuit made his final surge to beat War Admiral ... or cruised along the highway and seen a horse in a pasture and wondered what he's like to ride or pictured him as a prospect ... or sucked in your breath as a horse and rider approached a six-foot wall ... or sworn a solemn oath to your horse that together you would triumph ... or flipped through the TV channels and stopped when you saw a horse even when it was a commercial ... or laughed aloud when you rubbed your horse's face and he rubbed back ... or gotten chills hearing Dave Johnson's 'and DOWN THE STRETCH THEY COME!' (or 'Run for the Roses' circa 1980 ish?)
... or stood in awe at your horse in morning play as he sprinted around the pasture, then stopped, head erect, and snorted defiance at the rest of the world
... or been thankful to see wild horses grazing casually at the foot of a hill ... or felt calmed by the sleekness of a silky
haircoat beneath your hand ... or felt your jaw drop as you watched a Lipazzan
perform a capriole ... or if you've ever seen someone in the grocery store wearing a certain kind of hat, or boots, or buckle, or have a certain cut and length to their jeans, and felt some remote kind of connection ... or felt warmed by a soft nicker greeting as you entered the barn ... or slid your hand under your horse's blanket to straighten it out, only to pause in the glowing feeling that you get when you touch the
warmth of his coat... or riding on a trail with your horse, thinking how that trail over there looks nice and almost without asking, your horse has sensed your slightest movement in the saddle and he's now taking you there. ... or pulled up to your barn where you board and only your horse greets you with a welcoming hello from the sound of your car or your voice.

HEROES AND HORSES

SOME NOTABLE HEROES AND THEIR HORSES ARE MENTIONED AND WE KNOW YOUR HORSE IS YOUR HERO AND VICE VERSA.

1. Kanthaka - Buddha's horse, the one he used when he was still Siddhartha the prince, to escape from his father's palace and begin his journey toward enlightenment. Kanthaka's hooves made no sounds as they fled together and he is often depicted being lifted on his four feet by benign spirits.

2. Pegasus - the mythical winged horse parented by Neptune and Medusa and ridden by Bellerophon to rid the world of Chimera, the monster. Athena, the Greek goddess of wisdom, was able to capture and train Pegasus when he allowed her to place her golden bit in his mouth.

3. Phosphorus (Light Bearer) - the great Roman racehorse immortalized by the 4th century Roman poet Ausonius (at the emperor's request) in a beautiful eulogy: Fly with haste to join the wing-footed horses of Elysium; may Pegasus gallop on your right and Arion as your left-wheeler, and let Castor find a fourth horse for the team.

4. Babieca - famed white gelding of El Cid, Rodrigo Diaz of Bivar, the Spanish hero who united Christians and Muslims against a Moorish onslaught from Africa. Babieca lived to be 30 years old and carried El Cid into all his battles. Babieca means "crazy" as Rodrigo made a crazy choice since the colt was the runt of the herd.

5. Bucephalus (Ox-head) - beloved horse of Alexander the Great who bore the Macedonian hero on his back from Greece to India. Odds against a horse living past 20 in that era were great, but Bucephalus, in his 20s, endured until he fell in battle in India.

6. Sleipnir - the eight-legged war horse of Odin, the Norse god, was able to fly without wings and shape-shift.

7. Balios and Xanthos - a grey and bay, both sired by Zephyros, the West Wind, who together pulled Achilles' chariot.

8. Vivasat - a Hindu sun-god who often took the form of a stallion.

9. Al Burak - Mohammed's horse, on whose back he ascended to heaven, was brought to him by the archangel Gabriel

10. Chiron - the centaur who taught Achilles, Jason and the first physician, Ascelpius, all he knew.

11. Rakhsh - blue-eyed and dappled red horse of the legendary Persian warrior, Rustam. Rakhsh was highly intelligent and saved his sleeping master from a lion's attack, killing the predator.

There are many more famous mythical and real horses and we will be adding to our list. Can you help us add to this list?. thank you Harmony Horse Works.

The question is not: "do you support horse slaughter."

The question is: "do you support the cruel, terrifying transport for days without food and water in their journey to death?"

The question is: "do you support the torture and abuse of the killer chutes, even for crippled horses, pregnant mares, wild horses, protective mares with foals by their sides?"

The question is: “Do you support the horse slaughter factories that lie to their consumers about the many chemicals that taint the horse meat, and call it Organic?

The question is: do you support the breeder who breeds hundreds of horses just to pick out the good ones and cash in the rest to the killer buyer?

The question is: Do you support the person who uses the horse its whole life and when it gets to an old age sends it to slaughter as a thank you?

The question is: “do you support the slaughter workers who cheer a horse on that struggles extra hard for its life?

The question is: Do you support the killer buyer who not only buys up the strong, fat and healthy horses and leaves the meek weak and unhealthy for society, but also bids against the good homes and horse rescues?

The question is: “Can you see though the lies of the ones who stand to loose a buck with the end of horse slaughter?

The question is: Do you support ripping the last of our wild horses away from their families and peaceful lives to be slaughtered?

The question is: As a nation, can we allow this to continue and still call ourselves a civilized country?

The question is: "Can you look at the footage of innocent horses with their eyes gouged out, hooves ripped off, legs broken, beaten by the workers, faces smashed in from being on the transport trucks, horses stabbed in their spines, horses conscious for the entire killing process and do nothing?

That is the question, so what is YOUR answer?

Resolve to make the world a better place for animals (credit: PETA)

	If you haven't already done so, have the companion animals who depend on you spayed or neutered. These simple procedures help protect your furry friends from many types of cancer and prevent thousands of animals from being born only to end up abandoned on the streets or dumped at severely crowded animal shelters.
	If you live with a dog, pledge to walk him or her every day, even when it's cold outside and you'd rather hide under a blanket. If you share your home with cats, set aside some "kitty (or horsey) quality time" every day to play with, brush, and bond with them. It's sometimes too easy to overlook our feline friends, but they can get bored and lonely too.
	If there is a lonely "backyard dog" in your neighborhood, try befriending his or her guardian. Start by politely talking to him or her about the dog's needs, such as companionship, daily portions of fresh food and water, and a weatherproof doghouse filled with straw. Many lucky dogs have had their lives changed because someone like you cared enough to intervene.
	If you're shopping for yourself or buying holidays gifts for your loved ones, stay away from fur, wool, leather, and companies that make or sell products made from the skins of animals.

NOTE: Crossed Sabers can not fully guarantee the accuracy of every page on this website which is huge (38,000 files and over 300 pages). We do not have the personnel or time to keep it up to date and accurate for every situation as this Stable and all its programs have always been a dynamic entity, ever changing and improving itself to meet the needs of horses and horse people. We do try to make sure each page is up to date and accurate but the best thing to do If you have a question, is email or call us. Additionally Crossed Sabers can not guarantee anything that anyone says about us on line, we have no control over other people and their websites, forums or ads, all we can tell people is if you do not know the person, their name, address and their experience, age or history/background/education and location do not trust what they say. That is true for everything on the internet. Some things said about us have been grossly inaccurate and did not come from CSS, some come from past employees we fired for cause (for hurting horses or stealing from us), people that are pro-slaughter and hate our mission and what we do for horses enjoy trying to make us look bad, some are horse traders that we've helped put out of business and some are people we helped put in jail on neglect cases. Again, if you have questions about us, our services, our company structure, how we are licensed, how we pay taxes, how we do things or anything at all, please feel free to contact us, just don't assume that all you read on another website is accurate because 99% of it is not true, especially if you read it on a forum, blog or chat room and don't assume that it came from us, just call 304-873-3532 or email us at secondwindadopt@aol.com, or better yet, come and see our operation and you will see how we do things. I can guarantee it's 1000 times better than what the liars and frauds say who are jealous of our work. All programs and services listed on this website, including SWAP is a part of Crossed Sabers Stable which has been licensed in WV for the last 13 years. The Mountain State Horse School and Second Wind Adoption Program, Inc. and Crossed Sabers International Horse School, Inc. was incorporated on 4 Sep 08 to address the education needs and life challenges of people and horses.

Buyer and Seller Beware!! Update on the Robin Hollingsworth of Blacksburg, SC (she has several alias's and about 10 fake names) fraud case for those of you who have been asking. The SC prosecutor accepted a plea bargain from her and dropped the case if she paid the people she ripped off (the people she took money under false pretenses from when she sold them horses she did not own), she did that so she was let go but the 3 arrests will stay on her record and the record of what she did to all those people is still on the books and will stay there. If she is caught again I'm certain she will go to jail but people who are cheated by her must stand up and testify.. If more people that she ripped off would have not chickened out and backed out because of fear (Quote from them was we are scared of her, she is crazy) she would be in jail right now but beware, she is still loose and still taking free horses or companion horses that have things like ringbone and navicular and drugging them and then selling them as high level jumpers and competition horses on the internet. Her daughter works with her, Amanda or Mandy, she helps her rip people off. Beware, I'm getting calls almost every month where Robin has committed more crimes against people, taking horses, not paying for them, bouncing checks, buying vehicles and horse trailers and not paying for them. BEWARE OF THIS WOMAN!! If you want her history or to check a person's name against our black list (our do not adopt to, do not sell to, do not buy from, do not hire or even rent to list), then contact us.

BEWARE: Do not buy a horse from anyone you do not know, ESPECIALLY ON THE INTERNET, unless they have websites like ours, their names and addresses listed and they show they have a long long history on their website and do not buy unless you go to see the horse and have it vet checked and you have contact with the vet, not the seller or even trainer telling you what the vet said. DO NOT GIVE YOUR HORSE OR SELL YOUR HORSE WITHOUT A WRITTEN AGREEMENT AS TO WHAT IS TO HAPPEN WITH THE HORSE, RESELLING, USE/LIMITATIONS, FACILITIES NEEDED, ETC. It you sell or give away a horse with no agreement, they could go to slaughter the same day you release them or they could be sold and misrepresented, living a life of neglect, abuse, over use and miss use the rest of their lives. We hear stories all the time where a best friend or neighbor, the nice lady you gave the horse to sent the horse to slaughter or is neglecting it and there is not a thing the owner can do now because they no longer own the horse and they made no written agreements signed by both parties. If you need help doing written agreements, back ground checks on buyers and sellers, just contact us, that is part of our 'SAFE SELLING' SERVICES. Your horse's life depends on you being safe and thorough!

BEWARE: People are selling horses on the internet that don't even exist so beware, the horse industry is full is liars, cheaters, and thieves, even we have had to deal with them from potential adopters who were in jail applying to adopt, to employees and former trainers who totally ripped us off by stealing tack and tools, asking for huge advances and then leaving after they get them, people who don't even know us or had any experience with us slandering us on forums, harassing us and our supporters, interfering with company operations and even adopters who don't think twice about breaching their contract or forging their vets signature on applications & annual updates or even selling their adoption horse to programs like ours and even 501c3's public charities selling horses to slaughter auctions or being put in jail for neglect and animal cruelty. We are bringing each person that has wronged our horses to justice one at a time and winning all our cases but that does not protect the general public from these liars, thieves, con-artist and cheaters. Your horses life can easily be ruined forever, they could end up in a fate worse than death so buyer and seller beware, your horses life depends on you keeping them safe and you being thorough with doing things like getting references and making sure the people have stable employment, that they really own the farm they say they do, doing background checks to check for criminal records. The horse world is full of dishonesty which ruins it for honest people that really care and always try to do the right thing, such a shame. Just be very careful and get proof that your horse is going to a good home, get more than a feeling because we promise you about 50% of the time when it comes to horses, your feeling that its a 'nice' person or a 'good' person' is wrong. And even when you pick a good home, they can turn around and sell or give away to a bad home.

HOW TO STAY YOUNG

1. Throw out nonessential numbers. This includes age, weight and height. Let the doctors worry about them. That is why you pay 'them'

2. Keep only cheerful friends. The grouches and negative people pull you down. People who like to cause trouble will shorten your life and make you just like them... miserable.

3. Keep learning. Learn more about the computer, crafts, gardening, whatever. Never let the brain idle. 'An idle mind is the devil's workshop.'

4. Enjoy the simple things.

5. Laugh often, long and loud. Laugh until you gasp for breath.

6. The tears happen.. Endure, grieve, and move on. The only person, who is with us our entire life, is ourselves. Be ALIVE while you are alive.

7. Surround yourself with what you love , whether it's family, pets, keepsakes, music, plants, hobbies, whatever. Your home is your refuge.

8. Cherish your health: If it is good, preserve it. If it is unstable, improve it. If it is beyond what you can improve, get help.

9. Don't take guilt trips. Take a trip to the mall, even to the next county; to a foreign country but NOT to where the guilt is.

10. Tell the people you love that you love them, at every opportunity.

AND ALWAYS REMEMBER :
Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away.

Every Dream Starts with a Single Step, Take Your Step Today!

Women from History Who Dared To Change the World (credit: O Magazine)

600 B.C. TO 200 B.C.: Tribes of statuesque women (and men) roam the Eurasian steppes. The fearsome Amazons of myth? Not exactly. But archeological evidence suggests that among these nomads, the women were the warriors.

Circa 39: Dynamic sister duo Trung Trac and Trung Nhi amass a Vietnamese army in a revolt against Chinese rule. For four years, they lead the rebellion.

Circa 395: Fabiola, a Roman aristocrat whose divorce and subsequent remarriage were condemned by Christian society, founds a hospital for the poor and other outcasts of her city. It's likely one of the first hospitals in the Western world.

Circa 1001: Murasaki Shikibu begins writing The Tale of Genji, an epic portrait of court life (twice as long as War and Peace), considered by many to be the greatest masterpiece of Japanese literature and possibly the world's first novel.

1429: Peasant girl Joan of Arc commands the French army in a series of victorious battles to liberate her homeland from the English; she is burned at the stake for her trouble.

Circa 1579: Grace O'Malley, a swashbuckling Irish pirate known for raiding ships, fights off an English government expedition sent to stop her.

Circa 1613: In her graphically violent painting Judith Slaying Holofernes, Italian artist Artemisia Gentileschi slays the ideal of submissive womanhood: Her heroine is fierce, powerful, and ruthless.

1777: Teenager Sybil Ludington rides all night long through a storm to alert the 400 men in her father's militia that the redcoats are coming. She's called the female Paul Revere—but Paul rode with two of his buddies. And he was captured by the British.

1805: Sacagawea joins Lewis and Clark as their expedition's interpreter, traveling thousands of miles across the Rockies with her newborn babe strapped to her back. Who says life ends when you have kids?

1814: As the British torch Washington, D.C., First Lady Dolley Madison remains in the White House long enough to rescue historic valuables—running out moments before the soldiers charge in.

1862: Sarah Rosetta Wakeman, just 19 and dressed as a man, enlists in the Union Army. In a letter home, she assures: "I don't fear the rebel bullets nor I don't fear the cannon."

1867: Ida Lewis rescues three drowning men from wind-whipped swells in Newport Harbor. Then she rows back to save their sheep. Ida later becomes the country's first female lighthouse keeper.

1872: Victoria Claflin Woodhull becomes the first woman to run for president. A colorful candidate, she advocates for free love.

1906: Madam C.J. Walker hawks shampoos and serums door-to-door. The orphaned daughter of former slaves, she becomes one of America's wealthiest businesswomen.

1912: Astronomer Henrietta Swan Leavitt discovers the period-luminosity relationship (later used to calculate the distances between Earth and the stars).

1914: Barnstorming adrenaline junkie Georgia "Tiny" Broadwick makes the first-ever free fall from a plane.

1916: In a tenement neighborhood in Brooklyn, Margaret Sanger opens the doors of the country's first birth control clinic. Outside at least 150 women are waiting.

1916: Movie star Mary Pickford insists on becoming her own producer. America's Sweetheart is no sucker.

1937: Amelia Earhart disappears on the ultimate adventure—her attempt to fly around the globe. In a note to her husband, she explains: "I want to do it because I want to do it."

1938: Anna Mary Robertson Moses sells her first paintings, at age 78. Known as "Grandma" Moses, she continues to paint for 23 years, becoming one of the century's most renowned folk artists.

1941: Protofeminist superhero Wonder Woman first appears in a comic book, fighting off Fascists in star-spangled hot pants.

1946: Super-geekette Dorothy Hodgkin cracks penicillin's chemical makeup with an X-ray crystallographer. (Eighteen years later she'll earn the Nobel Prize.)

1953: Jackie Cochran flies an F-86 Sabre jet through the sound barrier. She learned to fly so she could travel around selling cosmetics, but it turns out trashing speed records is a lot more fun.

1959: On the edge of the Serengeti Plain, Mary Leakey digs up and pieces together a 1.7-million-year-old hominid skull, one of the most important finds in the history of archeology.

1960: At the Rome Olympics, Wilma Rudolph (left)—once partially paralyzed by polio—earns three gold medals in track-and-field, the first American woman to do so.

1963: Soviet cosmonaut Valentina Tereshkova becomes the first female to fly a spacecraft around the globe.

1967: Kathrine Switzer dares to run the all-male Boston Marathon, while an irate race official chases her.

1981: Alexa Canady becomes the first black female neurosurgeon in the United States.

1985: Just 175 miles from the Iditarod finish line, Libby Riddles heads into a blizzard when other mushers opt to stay in camp; this gives her a six-hour lead and, ultimately, the win.

1989: Performance artist Karen Finley smears her body with chocolate to illustrate that women are treated like, you know, dirt. The National Endowment for the Arts rescinds her funding, but she ultimately gets it back.

2005: Roz Savage quits her corporate job, leaves her unraveling marriage, and rows across the Atlantic by herself. Midlife crisis averted.

2008: Sandra Andersen, a barista at a Starbucks in Tacoma, Washington, learns that one of her customers needs a kidney to live. So she gives the woman hers.

2009: Navigator Ann Daniels leads the Catlin Arctic Survey, a 74-day journey from the Arctic Ocean to the North Pole to measure the thickness of sea ice.

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The Warmth of A Horse

When your day seems out balance...
and so many things go wrong ...
When people fight around you
and the clock drags on so long ...
When some folks act like children
and fill you with remorse ...
Go out into your pasture and wrap
your arms around your horse.

His gentle breath enfolds you as he
watches with those eyes ...
He may not have a PhD but he
is, oh so wise!
His head rests on your shoulder
you hug him good and tight ...
He puts your world in balance
and makes it seem all right.

Your tears will soon stop flowing,
the tension will be eased ...
The nonsense has been lifted.
You are quiet and at peace.
So when you need some balance
from the stresses in your day ...
The therapy you really need
Is out there eating hay!

Thank you fro the great work you do for the horses!!!! I'm not a rescue but I do try to help horses in need. I'm amazed at the number of horse people throw away like trash when they get finished with them. You helped me save one of my family horses a couple years ago troop you gave me advise on training him. Now he will gives you kisses and love on you. I dont think I would ever trust him under saddle. But now he will stand get his feet done and his shots yea much better and lead. He always have a spot on the farms as a hay burner and a pet. Your site helped me allot over the years thank you. One questions our older horse passed away last year rip peace starburst so I asked around and found another horse older for the kids to ride. Man told me he had the horse for free older mare that was pregnant. I was like ok. well long story story got the mare she is a bag of bones maybe a 2. She lost the baby a couple weeks after I got her. Vet gave her shots of antibodies she had some kind of infections to say the least it was nasty. She when down on her weight when she did not have weight to lose. She is over the infection now but still down on her weight. feeding grass hay been slowly bumping up her feed. Now she get about 3 or 4 pounds of beet pulp in morning soaked, 1 coffee can of all stock dry, half cup of corn oil, half cup apple cider vinegar, 1 cup of calf mana and all grass hay she will eat. Same at night. She is picking up weight very slowly. Am I doing something wrong. I dealt with skinny horse but none bad as she is. Vet said she got heavy worm load. He wanted to worm her. I feel like she is to skinny to worm and I told him no. Which did not go over good with my step daddy and the vet.I'm 31 but they still think they know best got love the south men. I feel like it would be better to wait till she picked up some weight to worm her. Vet said what teeth she had are fine. One good thing I noticed is her coat it getting smooth and soft she losing the rough old coat and it growing back in smooth.

Amanda

Amanda, sorry its taken me so long to get back to you. I think you were right in waiting to deworm, a horse really needs to be healthy and at a good weight to deworm. You could do a safe-gard dewormer with her or maybe 1/2 a one, they aren't as strong as the other dewormers but wait until she's at a good weight to do something like a Zimectrin gold.

I would maybe double the all stock feed (if that is a pellet) and maybe add some cracked corn, maybe the same amount as the stock feed or at least 1/2 a can of cracked corn, twice a day. Is the coffee can the 5 lb can? If so, go up to 2 coffee cans full of all stock pellets and one half can of cracked corn for both feedings... plus the other stuff your adding. Bump up to the additional feed over a week by adding a little more each day until you are feeding two cans and 1/2 can of cracked corn. make sure she has plenty of hay and fresh water to get all that food down and try to keep her off spring grass while she is getting that much food because spring grass will make her founder while she is getting that much feed... she really should not have any sugar and spring grass turns into sugar pretty fast.

Once she gets up to a good weight, after a bit she will slowly become a more easier keeper... so don't think you're going to have to give her that amount of food forever but its like people, for us to gain weight we have to eat a lot more calories than we need. Plus she may have had some physical things or even emotional things from losing her baby that has made it tougher to get her weight up too.

Hope this helps. What is her breed and age? I may have missed that in the email. Celeita

Hello there,
My name is Katie MacDougall and I am from eastern Canada. I ride and show hunter/jumper horses, and recently a close personal friend of mine purchased a horse. I was at a show the day she went to inspect the horse, and was unable to accompany her. I recommended she had the horse checked by a reputable veterinarian and sent her on her way. She saw nothing wrong with the horse, besides his extremely thin appearance. The seller and buyer had already known each other, and she trusted him. She did not go through with the vet check, but purchased the horse. Two days later the Thoroughbred gelding became extremely lame. We have discovered that he has Navicular disease. I have told her not to make any hasty moves (fearing slander laws) but the horse is uninsured and in a bad situation.
I was searching the internet for cases of buyers taking sellers to court over equine diseases and happened to come across your website. You seem to be very well informed of the laws and how to go about taking a horrible man like this to court. I can honestly say that I have had the wonderful chance to work around some amazing horses, and many more unamazing horses, and have never seen a horse in a condition such as this poor gelding. He is skinny beyond belief. I have rescued a Registered Morgan gelding myself (owners left him in a hayfield where the poor fellow ate himself to 450lbs overweight, and developed laminitis so severe that the heat and tissue and swelling blew right through the front of his hooves.) I have dealt and seen the misery that goes along with a horse in pain (he made a full recovery with constant attention, patient excersize, and a VERY talented farrier) and I have never seen a horse in worse condition then this horse. I believe the seller may have drugged this horse, and the effects of this drug wearing off have stripped what little weight he DID have at the time of purchase off the horse.
We are unsure of how we are going to proceed in a legal manner, but are preparing a case just incase we are able to take this horrible man down. I would appreciate any info you may have, even examples (even though you are in the United States, anything may help) because you seem very well informed on the subject.

Thank you and keep up the excellent work with SWAP, your facility is excellent and what you are doing is amazing. We need more like you in the world.
-- Katie MacDougall

Katie, I'm very sorry for the delay in answering your email. I am desperately trying to get caught up. I'm sure you have already found your answers but I wanted to respond anyway. This may take some research on your part for canadian law and the law of the province/territory where the horse was sold (where the crime was committed). I would think there would be a statute that is similar to our 'taking money under false pretenses' which is in most US states is against the law and would be a criminal case and in the US is a felony usually when its over $250. US dollars. This of course, has to be proved in a court which means the person either had to have a written agreement with the seller that stated the horse was sound, something in writing such as an email stating the horse was sound or even a written ad, in some cases this can be something that implied the horse was sound but that is harder to prove. If there was a verbal description given to the buyer by the seller then the buyer would need a witness (a second person who was with her to hear the seller say the horse was sound and preferably someone who will state so in a court of law as there is no reason to have a witness if that person is scared of court or of the seller, or if they are just scared of the thought of testifying in court.

I would recommend going into the city and providence where the seller is located and file a criminal complaint so that its on the books (so if it happens again, there is a formal record that police can use in the future... if everyone did that then these lying cheating horse traders would be in jail faster).

Besides the criminal case you could probably do a civil case against him for false advertising if he was using written ads or verbal communication (when you have an adult witness). Statements from people (including a vet if possible) saying the horse was not sound just a few days later would be critical to win in court but without a written or verbal agreement/statement from the seller that the horse was sound or any implying to that fact, the seller could still say the horse was hurt after the sale and departure from his facility so the buyer would need witnesses again saying nothing happened at the new facility or on the trailer...

What I tell people is always do a formal written agreement, either get a vet check in writing (directly from the vet as we have heard of sellers changing vet checks and then giving it to the buyer) or get in writing a statement from the seller that the horse was not drugged and is sound. Of course, thieves and con artist will just say they did not know the horse was unsound or that something must have happened to the horse after they left so being timely is critical when you find something like this. The seller could always say something like the horse is not shod correctly or trimmed correctly so a statement from a farrier/vet also helps. I always recommend going to purchase a horse with an adult knowledgeable horse person that agrees to be a witness in court if necessary. If the seller makes the buyer sign a statement (that they do not guarantee soundness, training, temperament, etc), then the buyer really has no recourse at all as they should know they accept all risks but most sellers that make the buyers sign such statements return fees or take the horse back and find a replacement (like we do). .

I hope this helps some. If nothing else file a criminal complaint with the police so there is a record about this person and let everyone you know how to protect themselves with purchases. Sadly this happens every day in the US and people just let it go instead of doing something, it ruins people's horse experiences, turns them against the horse world, against having horses and in some cases gets people hurt. The only way we will ever get it stopped is by making sure these people go to jail or are held accountable for what they have done as what they have done is against the law. Sadly con artist are working in the horse industry because they know the police won't do anything as its 'just horses' and they use the internet many times as it puts distance between the buyer and seller knowing the buyer will not do background checks on the person selling or the horse being sold and once the seller has the money they disappear. We have a long list of checks we now do when people adopting our horses (we do them because we have learned the hard way as many con-artist type horse traders target programs like ours to get horses and turn around and sell them by telling lies about the horse and drugging it even though its against our written contract with them). Luckily our contract always wins in court and has put people in jail because we do not release ownership of the horse, we are only conveying possession of the horse. That is the only way to protect the horse for life.

All the best and thank you for caring so much a doing the right thing for your friend and about this poor horse.

Many regards, Celeita

PS. I've copied some other smart horse women who might be able to add something that might help.

Hi, Just wondering if I have a horse that can be fixed. 6 yr. twh gelding. Shipped up from www.eveningshadefarm.com 2 years ago. We have not been able to de spook . Has a quick spin, bolt up his sleeve that keeps popping up just when you think it's gone, after enough miles and ground work. Otherwise a sweet boy with great gaits and ground manners. No warning or reason. Thank you for any advise. Ellen

Have you tried Parelli's 7 games, Monty Roberts join up, both has a great video that covers them? Or some of these other despooking natural type training? Also there is a new book out that I've heard good things about, Bombproofing your horse, you might try that. You might also look at our questions and answers page, driving is also a good solution for a de-spooking horse. I hope this helps some. Some horses spookiness can come from the rider, some horses just need a really settled quiet rider, that is a very good leader, some will not go out alone either but that just has to be evaluated individually. Some horses are just more up, I've known many walking horses like that or they move so much faster than other horses which unnerves some riders.

I purchased a lovely 5yr old, 17 hand thoroughbred in August. (never raced) He was at my trainers for 30 days (he normally trains QH's). My big boy was trained "Clinton Anderson" style. He has an issue however and that is ... his "go" button is stuck ON all the time. He is very soft(one rein stop). I can walk him on a loose rein with no problem but if I ask for a trot/canter he wants to gallop (i know it's in his blood). I saw a Clinton Anderson show on RFDTV and he suggested to an audience member to do thousands of turns, shut him down everytime he goes any faster than you want him to. He literally said "thousands" of turns. I was just wondering what method you all use to train for "speed control"????

Any advise would be appreciated!!!!!!

Leanne Strauss

Leanne,

I've seen that method work many times, every time they go to speed up you put their nose on your leg or foot and spin them, then give them their head and if they go to speed up, you do it again and again and again.... eventually they just get really tired of spinning.

Was he ever trained for racing by anyone? Anyone ever done anything with him that would push the speed or is this just him?

In many ways, your boy is just being who he is, a young TB.... he'll hopefully get better with age but at 17 hands he'll always be a huge mover.

Honestly I would put him with someone who trains TB's and for the discipline you do but QH's are being crossed so much with TB I'm certain QH trainers are seeing much hotter horses today than they used to, he might be okay. Is he a big rider (heavy or tall) as he may be driving the horse more than a smaller rider would?

Also the 7 games by Parelli, especially the friendly game is good for that. You might get his training video on the 7 games.

Even working with him ground driving and giving to the bit, you can do it in a round pen or arena but many europeans ground drive their riding horses, dressage and jumping horses for miles getting them responsive to the bit but with his size and age I would use another person at his head with a lead until you know he's not going to drag you down the road.... headers are used many times with driving horses so its just for yours and the horses safety.

I have 2 good friends of mine, one is an irish huntsman and other was the AHSA Horseman of the year in 1977 (and they only pick one) who are big supporters of teaching a horse to drive in order to make them into better riding horses. Both believe you drive them before riding and any time you are having any problem with them riding, hitch them up to a cart and drive them several miles. I respect their opinion and I've actually seen teaching a horse to drive an excellent way to fix problems and to make a better horse. I really believe its part of the reason that all our standardbreds go to beginners after racing, they are just so settled and sensible, easy to control. In the spring, once we are settled into the new facility you could bring him down and we can teach him how to drive if you like, just a weekend is all you need to go home and continue to work with him. We will probably also be giving driving clinics at the new place, this is how much I believe in driving your riding horses.

John Lyons also teaches the one arm/rein halt/stop to keep yourself out of trouble. How's his brakes? He also says if a horse wants to go, then run him and keep running him until way after he wants to stop.... after about an hour of a good hard trail ride he'll be thinking about stopping or wanting to slow down but you keep running him way behind that. Its like his saying about... if he's going away, make him go away fast. Eventually he'll really want to slow down but only do this with someone with an excellent seat and endurance to stay in the saddle.

Do you think he feels comfortable at the other gaits with a rider? Does he feel balanced in a trot to you? Possibly some trot work in a round pen, on long lines, ground driving or driving might help. Always remember to use a header though when ground driving or driving, at least in the beginning until you know he's settled.

I hope this helps some.

Hello,

I have been following the SWAPS website for many years and have always enjoyed reading the articles, as well as looking at the horses. :)

So, I am emailing you because I do not know where to begin with my current horse predicament. I have read about the unfortunates incidents where horse trading, neglect, and abuse has occurred to your SWAPS horses and I was hoping you would be able to shed some light on a situation I am going through.

A couple years ago I sold a beautiful, but physically limited, 17.2 hand thoroughbred named George to a gal in Montana who sounded like a really good person (a vet tech who could really care for his legs). She sent me emails and letters, pictures of her boarding facility and even let me talk to her vet (who was supposedly her employer) for a reference. I set up a Bill of Sale Purchase Agreement, which she signed, and she came with her husband and picked George up here in Oregon. I contacted her once a year later to see how he was doing and she replied quickly to tell me he was doing wonderful and he was almost sound.

Fast forward to two weeks ago, I received a call from a criminal investigator asking me questions about George and the gal who bought him, Melissa Thurston. His name is XXXXXXXXXX and he is part of the Montana XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX. I sent him all the information I had from the emails to the bill of sale to George's tattoo number and pedigree. He couldn't tell me why he needed this, but he did say that this was all part of an ongoing investigation against Melissa Thurston and my information was extremely beneficial for the case. Since this really piqued my interest, I searched high and low on the internet to explore what this may all be about. I found many classified ads for George (who is now called Marq) that ranged from $9,000 to $30,000 as a USET trained jumper, endurance horse, and "dressage master." My heart is broken to pieces, because I sold George thinking she would just use him as a pleasure flat horse and continue his suspensory ligament rehab and bone chip care (he was an ex-racehorse).
http://www.equinenow.com/horse-ad-29192
http://www.dreamhorse.com/show_horse.php?form_horse_id=855906
http://www.equine.com/Horses/ad_details.aspx?lid=295147&search_id=3d93041e-58ea-4727-928c-0cffc77fc089

All the ads are different, but they are for the same horse.

I feel like I've been had, but more than anything, that George is in danger and I want him back.

So where I'm at a loss is what am I able to do legally? I have a contract that I bought from the local tack store with an agreement from both parties stating I have the first right of refusal is the new owner should ever want to sell the horse. I'm in Oregon and she's in Montana- ia this contract legally binding in two states? Do I need to contact a lawyer? I have talked to the investigator a few times and told him I want the horse back, but I know I can't contact Ms. Thurston until the investigation is complete.

I'm sorry for such a long winded email, but like I said before, I've followed your website for a long time and really love what you provide for the animals in need. I have a mare from the Standardbred Retirement Foundation that has been a true joy in my life as well as a navicular Paint gelding who can bring comedy and smiles to anyone's life. It makes me sick that there are horse traders, wheeler-n-dealers, out there and I feel like I need to save George before anything worse happens to his legs or him in general! I never want to let go of him again.

Thanks you for you time and care,
Sincerely
Christa
Oregon

Christa, did she sign the right of refusal contract? Do you have the original of that? Do you have anything from a vet that says the horse should only be ridden for pleasure? Was it an injury that was not going to get better, like a hard tissues injury that was never going to get better? Did you put limits of use and sale in your contract? If she did and you do, I would just go get the horse. With that contract and the ads showing she is attempting to sell the horse against your contract with her and misrepresenting the horse then you can just go get the horse. Try to get the horse when she is not there and before she calls the police. If she calls the police then have all the documents to show them, including vet reports that describes the limits of the horse, especially if any of them say that the horse would never be able to do certain things.

Going to take horses back and even on private property is a regular practice of adoption programs and rescues and nothing ever happens, if she gets physical or lays one hand on you then call the police, if she threatens to call the police then say okay lets call the police because she is committing a felony and you want the police to know it and if she won't let you take the horse then you call the police. Take the horse and leave the money she paid you for the horse.

They may call in the magistrate right then to make a decision in fact if the police say its a civil matter, tell them no, its criminal because she is misrepresenting the horse, which is taking money under false pretenses and fraud and that is against the law and tell them she may sell the horse to a child who could be killed because the horse is not what she is saying and can not do what she is saying and the childs death will be on their shoulders because you told them what she is doing. Tell them if they do not allow you to take the horse she will sell it and it will never be found so they will be allowing her to break the law.

If she is there and will not let you take the horse, then you call the police and ask the police to call the magistrate and have a decision made by the magistrate. Have all the documents and have any witnesses with you that were around when she picked up the horse from you or anyone that talked to her or anyone that can prove what you are saying. We are realizing you have to have witnesses for everything that happens with horses and she brought her husband who will lie for her so you really need anyone that was involved besides you that can prove what you say. If the police won't call the magistrate then tell them (away from her) the name of the investigator that is investigating her, probably for fraud in horse sells.

If you can't do that and can't go there then I would contact a lawyer and show him all the emails, the right of refusal contract and the ads where she is selling him against your contract but time is of the essence because she could sell your horse at any time. Does your horse have any markings or tattoos, brands that you can prove he is your horse as you may have to.

She came to you to you to buy the horse, you did not go to her so you can file against her in your state and she will have to find representation in your state or accept the judgment, with a judgment you can go pick up the horse but personally if you can go to Montana, just go to her farm and get your horse and tell her she is misrepresenting the horse and attempting to sell the horse, which is against your contract and tell her you are taking the right of refusal since she is attempting to sell him against your agreement with her. If you do sue her sue her for the return of the horse, all the court cost and all your legal fees, all your costs for tracking her down, the costs of going there if you go there and keep receipts for everything and sue her for all your expenses for getting him back, including the mental anguish that she has caused and file in circuit court if you can as it will get more attention.

This is the problem with selling because without a very complete contract, something very similar to our contract except for a sale of a horse then once you hand over ownership, the person can do almost anything because the police rarely do anything but if she is under investigation then maybe up there the detectives have the time to actually go after someone like this. In the eastern states the detectives are so overworked, unpaid and most are going after murders and major frauds, 250k and up so they do not have the time to go after something like this, even the police won't do anything in most cases and they will claim its civil when in fact it is criminal only because they don't want to address it.... they just don't have the time. I hope this helps. Celeita

Celeita,

Thank you for your response! Your words have helped ease my mind since I had no clue where to begin!

I do have the Purchase Agreement where in section 11 a box has been checked to state:
-Yes, the seller wishes to retain the right to purchase this horse back if the new owner(s) decides to sell, thus retaining the "first right of refusal." This is valid until as long as the horse lives.

And in section 12, in regards to the entire agreement is states:
-Either party may nullify this Agreement if the other party breaches a material term of this Agreement. The wronged party may recover reasonable attorney fees and court costs.

George is tattooed and his brand inspection records are available at the Montana Department of Livestock. I think the criminal investigator caught wind of Melissa Thurston from a brand violation and it has since snowballed from there. Unfortunately I do not have anything in the Agreement stating George's limitations, so I was hoping that the breach of section 11 in the contract would be enough (by law). I *do* have all the emails stating his physical limitations and her agreeance to continue his rehab, plus all his vet records (including x-rays of the bone chips and ultrasound of his ligaments). My vet has since moved to WA, but he is a good friend of mine and I think I will call him, just to reiterate George's permanent and limited condition. Alas, I don't know is that would stand up in court (if it came to that).

Today I recieved a number for a gal who is an equine lawyer here locally. At this point, I have to hold tight until the investigator contacts me for a formal phone interview. He did assure me that he has been keeping an eye on George and he has not been ridden for a month (and no abuse is prevalent). I just can't help but worry, but I know there are plenty of folks on my side.

Again, I appreciate your help and I will keep you apprised of the situation. I think the more wheeler-n-dealers we can flush out, the better off our four leggeds will be.

Happy Holidays,
Sincerely
Christa

Very good Christa, the right of refusal should be enough but I would get a notarized statement from your vet to have on hand and let him know he may have to testify by phone (since he is out of state most courts will let a person testify out of state but some states require the person to be there). Can you prove by the pictures of description that the horse in the ads is your horse, say did she use your pictures or are the markings so distinct that you can prove in court that her ads are the same horse. I didn't look at the ads but as a person who does expert witness work in the horse world, in a court an expert could be there to say yes, this is the same horse from the pictures and the markings. The thing you don't want her to do is just be able to lie and say that's another horse or she wasn't really selling him.

I would call the detective and tell him you can't wait because if she sells your horse he will be impossible to find, then she could say anything... like he died or something or she can just clam up, which we've had happen, even with a huge amount of evidence if they don't talk their is nothing they can do to get this girl to tell you where the horse is... he'll just be gone. And I would get with the equine lawyer and have her do an injunction to stop any sales or moving of the horse until the court is over because even while you are waiting on the court date she could sell, thinking she is going to lose anyway so why not get some money out of it.

Yes, we need to shake the tree until all the bad horse traders fall out and the world would be a much better place. Don't get me wrong, there are great horse traders too. I know one in particular, he's dreadfully honest about the horse, he trains the horse and makes it so much better and he matches the horse with the rider. Its a lot more work to be honest but the horse world is a much better place for it. For Sure. I do hope you get your boy back. Let us know how it goes and if we can be of help. I'll be your expert witness if you need one. I've done it several times. Celeita

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